Harmon Solar Podcast
The solar energy sector in Arizona is currently oversaturated, which has led to a scarcity of transparency. In response, we've created a podcast to provide an honest perspective on going solar in the state. Join us as we explore the intricacies of utilities, equipment, processes, and more. Our primary objective is to educate and empower you to make informed decisions on your solar journey.
Harmon Solar Podcast
Let's Talk The Current Arizona Solar Market Plus Some Q&A
Ready to unlock the current status of Arizona's solar market? Discover how the sun-drenched state stands out as a prime location for solar energy and why it's a hotspot for installations despite market fluctuations. We'll explore the distinctive factors that make Arizona irresistible for solar despite current day economic challenges. These challenges have left several large solar installation companies to disappear leaving countless customers without support. Fear not—Harmon Solar stands strong, offering stability and reliability for those affected. Our insights into the cyclical solar market reveal how factors like the economy and elections impact solar sales, with a notable business surge post-election. Also join our enlightening Q&A session as we tackle burning questions about solar installations and incentives. Stay with us as we continue to empower you with the knowledge to make informed solar energy decisions.
Welcome to another edition of the Harman Solar Podcast. I'm Rob Romano, VP of Sales and Marketing at Harman Solar. With me is my partner, as always, Ben Wolfschlager. You guys know him as Mr Everything and we did change his title. Underneath there you can see it says Mr Everything because he did complain about being called Mr Something.
Speaker 1:I didn't complain, I was just accepting it. Well, I know in his personal life.
Speaker 2:It had some impact, so we went and changed it to mr everything okay, all right you feeling better now?
Speaker 1:yeah, I'm feeling better, mr. Everything back at it again. Let's do this, okay. Season four of the podcast click no.
Speaker 2:So today we're gonna. We've been talking about doing this and there's a lot of things that are going on right now with elections and everything else and, uh, some news about different installers and other things. Um, so we would basically thought we would do almost like a current status in Arizona when it comes to solar, kind of like a State of the Union in a sense. Yeah Right, so who better to do that than me and you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you should have changed your background a little presidential seal. I thought about it, that would have been cool.
Speaker 2:That would have been cool. The Arizona flag, yeah, yeah, no, thanks, okay, you know, thanks, okay on that note, on that note. So that's what we're going to do today. We're going to talk about, kind of what's going on in arizona. We got some different things and different um things that are contributing to the market right now, and then at the end we're going to go ahead and we have some questions from listeners and viewers and we're going to tackle some of those as well yeah, I don't know if any under any other industries like us we are constantly evolving
Speaker 1:every six months it's not something that you just oh, this is how solar is and this is how it will always be for the 20, 30, 40, 50 years. Like I'm always learning, like every week, like, oh, guess what? Now this now. This changed now this changed, so constantly adapting and as homeowners, you need to know what those changes are I mean, we've been doing.
Speaker 2:I've been doing this for almost 12 years. How long you've been doing this? 10 years, so in and 10 years, I think, things changed every six or eight months. There's something that changes, and they're not minor changes either. Right, so the core of solar is going to always be the same, but then there's everything else around it that we constantly have to change with and adopt to, and if we don't, then it's not a good thing for us or our business. So, yeah, so we bring this knowledge to you. We've been doing this a long time. You're welcome. Yeah, we typically see the cycles of solar every year and how they go as far as sales and everything else, and this year has been different. Yeah, a little different, a little different. I think there's a lot of factors into that. I think it's the economy, the election and all these other things, but We've had major swings.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've had.
Speaker 2:It's major Up and down, yeah, big time. So we're going to kind of get into what's causing that to happen and what's going on in Arizona with solar right now. So let's talk about why Arizona is the place that people want to come and sell solar, because there's a reason for that. What's the reason, ben?
Speaker 1:Why do they come here? Everyone always thinks the obvious reason oh, there's sun all the time. Sure, yeah, all the time in california, what new mexico? And texas and louisiana, all the southern states. But you have to, you have to realize it's not just the sun factor, because there's sun everywhere in hawaii, right, yeah, I hope so. How? How is solar in hawaii, though?
Speaker 2:ralph bad yeah, see, very bad it's, it's not always used to be the best.
Speaker 1:Now it's Exactly. It's not always sunshine and rainbows pun intended, hawaii, rainbow Warriors. So Arizona is good because we have kind of a good trifecta of things, the sun obviously being one, utility rates is favorable for solar as well, and then just the products that we have available for us. Yeah, all those combined makes Arizona solar great, whereas you have states like you know. Let's take the Northeast, in Massachusetts, you know a lot of people think like oh, you know, massachusetts is cloudy and snowy, it's not good for solar.
Speaker 2:Wrong, it's a great place.
Speaker 1:It's actually a great place for solar because they have other aspects that influence. You know their utility rates and pricing and things like the incentives. Yes, that makes solar attractive there. It's almost free there. Yeah, it's because of the incentives. It's crazy, it is crazy. So, yeah, it's not necessarily the state that you're in and how much sun you get, it's all the factors so you have to weigh into right market factors and conditions apply.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm sure I know there's other states. Um, I think north dakota is another state where it's like solar is not that great but it's okay. But again, you know, we people are thinking, oh, because they don't have sun. No, it's utility rates, it's what equipment they have.
Speaker 2:You know how are things handled, their incentives, things like that oklahoma, which used to be okay for solar then it got really good now because the rates are going through the roof by the utilities out there. Yeah, they've finally decided that they want people to pay more. And, of course, oklahoma is a gas oil state, right. So you have the issues there of people's mindset as, hey, we like gas and oil, we don't like renewables. You're the devil, right. So I mean you have there's challenges there, but it's getting more and more popular because of what they're doing with the rates there. So there's all these conditions that are always going to affect every industry or every market for this industry.
Speaker 2:So Arizona, like you just said, we use a ton of power because it's God awful hot here, you know, six, seven months a year. We don't really have a fall. We get a tiny winter and a tiny spring, and then it's hot again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, our seasons are hot and not as hot, yeah.
Speaker 2:So our usage is through the roof. Our rates are historically have been lower than most of the country until the last few years where they've really gone up, which as a solar company, you're like okay. Well, that just makes our product more viable for people as the rates continue to go up. So when the utilities continue to raise rates, you need to look at ways to offset that, and that's what solar is for. So solar has been more, it's more and more. It's more beneficial for people as the rates continue to go up in this state and they will continue to go up, as you hear.
Speaker 1:And who knows, you know, 50, 60 years from now, arizona might not be a good state for solar, it's true, because of incentives or other factors. It might be. It might be a clear winner. I mean, there's a lot of reasons.
Speaker 1:It might turn into like a Hawaii, a hawaii situation where it was good at one point but then now it's not so great, right. So you know arizona, we don't know, but you know for right now and for the you know small future ahead, I guess next few years, it is a good spot for solar point of reference for hawaii.
Speaker 2:It was great until they basically overloaded the grid.
Speaker 2:Their grids completely overloaded and you can't put solar on it yeah you have to have a battery to unload your your power, because the grid can't take it. So, yeah, Hawaii's a mess. I remember five, six years ago, seven years ago, everybody used to go out to Hawaii and sell solar. It was fantastic then, yeah, it was crazy. But now it's like people, it's like stay away. And California is becoming the same thing now because of the rules that they've changed where it's not as great as it used to be. So again to Ben's point this stuff changes all the time. Arizona's been pretty consistent for the last 12 years. For the most part this is the first time we've really seen, I'd say in the last four years the rates have really started to climb.
Speaker 2:So, that's what happens, though. Right as time goes on, everything goes more expensive, so that's why people come to Arizona, right? They know this is a solid market where you can come and sell solar. There's a lot of companies that come here.
Speaker 1:It's easy, right, just come here and sell solar. It's so easy. We've talked about this in the podcast.
Speaker 2:I hate how companies come out here and just try to sell solar like the place they're from yeah, because we're not the place they're from, right and then when you talk to the people that are coming from the different states, they're not giving you the accurate information because they don't take how we do in Texas.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, texas isn't Arizona, exactly.
Speaker 2:So you gotta be always careful of who you're buying something from, um, and then here's a big phenomenon. So we all I think we've all felt the impacts of the economy the last four years I mean, this isn't a political statement, but it's a reality right the last four years since the pandemic inflation's high. Inflation has gone up, we know it Right and it impacts everything Our interest rates. Just to give you an example, our interest rates four or five years ago were 0.49 on some of the loans.
Speaker 2:Half a percent. Right, think about that. And now, now you know a loan is at 8%, you know 9%. Yeah, you know cause, and we all talk about loans have fees behind them, right, those fees have ballooned as well. Sure, so if you want to try to get down to like a 4% loan, the balloon fees behind it just don't make it work. So the economy has definitely impacted this industry nationwide for the last five, four years, four and a half years. I'm going to start at the pandemic and go forward right.
Speaker 2:It's definitely impacted it and there have been some monsters in the industry, huge installers that you know. They're like 28, 29 States, they do a lot of business. They're gone. I mean, they were billion dollar companies two, three years ago that don't exist anymore.
Speaker 2:That's crazy to think about, Right, I mean. So think about that. There's a lot of installers in Arizona that we've known for years and they don't. They're not here anymore, Nope. We've known for years and they don't. They're not here anymore, Nope. So what's the impact of that there? There is an impact to that.
Speaker 1:And why is Harmon still here? Yeah, why is Harmon? We pay our bills. I guess we keep the lights on.
Speaker 2:Well, we'll get to that in a second. So first of all, those those installers going away, we know have impacted some of you because some of you have gone solar in this state through some of those companies and they're longer here. So what does that mean? Right? What does that? How does that? How does that hurt them?
Speaker 1:So installers that have packed up and left. So what you have to realize is well, okay. Well, what did I get from them specifically? Right? What did I buy? What's the warranty that I have with them? Do I have a workmanship warranty or roof warranty, things that? So I got that from them. Now they're no longer here. Is my warranty still valid? Nope, nope, their workmanship warranty isn't.
Speaker 1:But, like the equipment that you have, the equipment you know if it's a manufacturer you know rec panels or hondwa panels or you know whatever type of panels that's a manufacturer um right, um warranty. Same thing with your inverter. You have n phase or sma or tesla or whatever. Those companies are still in business so you still have the warranties with them, but the installer is no longer there, so their workmanship warranty is going to be separate from your manufacturer warranty.
Speaker 2:So it's so important. We say there's all that, we've been saying this since day one know who's installing your solar. Yes, yes, you, yes. You have to know that it's so important because these things can happen and those people, now are you in a bad place.
Speaker 2:Well, you're not in a great place. You still have solar, I'd say, which is good. It's still producing, hopefully. But when it stops producing, who do you call and you're having issues at? Who do you call Ghostbuster? Who do you call you? Who do you call? You call Harmon solar, right? Um, because thankfully we have a very big service department and we've we've taken on so much, so many customers like this um in the last six months because their installers are gone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, I always relate it and I've, I know, I've said it several times to your check engine light or your car you know, just cars in general auto store. It's you know small little mom pop shop that just came up, and joe's auto store, joe's auto store.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've seen that place visit them at joe's auto storecom. No, and you buy a car from them. Let's say you buy a ford explorer, okay, and a couple years down the road joe's auto shop packs up and they're no longer in business joe's gone. Does that mean that your warranty for your ford explorer is gone?
Speaker 1:no you know, your check engine light comes on or something that happens to your car, you can take that to any other dealer. You can take it to any other service provider and get it fixed. Because their car is a ford, it has that manufacturer warranty. Other service providers can help fix that car. You know, just because your dealership is gone doesn't mean your warranty is gone. So same thing with solar. If the company that you purchased it from is no longer in business, yes, their warranties for their labor is no longer going to be valid, but your manufacturer warranties are still there. So you could take your solar system not literally, by the way to any other service provider and get it serviced. Unscrew it from your roof, pack it up. I've got my solar system here. It's not working. Don't know why I'm twitching, cause it's in your hands.
Speaker 2:So anyway, yeah, that's that's the reality of what that means to the industry. So those companies that have gone away, I mean you just again reach out to us, we'll help you, we can us, we'll help you, we can help you run the warranty uh jobs through the, through the manufacturers, um, if they cover labor on the warranty jobs and you're in great shape. If not, then we would have to kick in and, you know, charge you for warranty. Obviously we can't give you their workmanship or their stuff. You're not gonna. That just goes away. Your workmanship warranty is gone.
Speaker 1:Right, your roof warranty is gone right. We can't warrant their other their workmanship warranty because what if they did a bad job?
Speaker 2:exactly.
Speaker 1:We can't cover that, and they probably did. They probably did. That's why they're not here.
Speaker 2:So I mean that's been a big impact in this state. In the last six months We've seen a couple or more installers go down. So if you're in that situation, never fear Harmon's here.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, I did say that. Oh, there he is, but it is true, we are here and we can help you through it.
Speaker 2:Just give our service department a call if you're having an issue, we'll help you. Yeah, so at least you know you got you got someone here that can partner with you, um, but that is the reality of what's happening in this industry. As they disappear. Harman's not disappearing and here's the reason why. So we've been around since 75, so we've been here a long time. We've seen a lot of ebbs and flows, a lot, and ebb is, yeah, we've seen a lot.
Speaker 2:But the difference is Harmon doesn't rely solely on residential solar. That's not our only business. It's part of our business and it's not even the biggest part of our business. It's an important part of our business and it's a good size part. But we are big in other areas. We do a lot of commercial solar. We do commercial electrical. You see a hotel going up. We're doing the wiring a lot of times in those hotels. You see these mass um buildings going up commercially and stuff. We're doing a lot of the solar parking lots and the bill. We do all that kind of stuff plus a couple other things. Like I said, we have a huge service department. We're very diversified as a company with ev network. Our ev network is big, yeah, so we're not sitting around just relying on one part of the industry to either make or break us. That's just not smart business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is scary because if that residential section does go down, then what If you have a company that relies 100% on one revenue stream and that goes down? Well then that's why you pack up and leave. Yep got to diversify your business and during this year.
Speaker 2:You we've seen a lot of the residential solar market at the beginning of the year took a huge hit in Arizona and nationally. Because of the economy, because of the interest rates, because of the dealer fee, I mean everything. It took a huge hit. People didn't have money to spend. The savings spread wasn't what it used to be when you get a proposal, so people were less apt to want to go solar because of that.
Speaker 1:But what happened with the commercial industry during that time? It blew up exactly. It was just the opposite it quadrupled in size.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was crazy, right. And then our electrical business again blew up. Our service business was always just steady and good. So did we feel the effect of it? Yeah, a little bit we felt it, but not to the point of some of these companies that said we can't do this anymore. We got to go right. So that's why it's important always know who your installer is, do some research on them, see what they're in business to do. Is it? Are they just a residential solar company?
Speaker 1:that's a good question that's a little scary if you're. You know you're getting solar for your home and you're sitting at the table with the sales consultant. Obviously you're going to ask them questions about your home and the proposal and all that stuff. Ask them about their company as a whole too. What other revenue streams do you guys have If they're like none red flag.
Speaker 2:That's a red flag red flag.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to say it, but I always think of the movie Tommy. And when he talks about putting the warranty on the box, you know, say the line. I know I'm not going to say it. We have a lot of companies out here that tell you oh, I'm going to give you this 40 year warranty, we're going to give you this 35 billion year roof warranty. You know we'll do. And I always laugh at that. I'm like the warranty is only as good as the paper it's on right. I mean, it's garbage. Look at the company. How long have they been around? What do they do? Are they stable? Because if they're not, they can tell you whatever they want to tell you. And then what happened this year? They're gone, yep.
Speaker 1:Now, what Got you to buy it? Yep.
Speaker 2:Thanks for signing on the line. This is a long to 30 year commit. You got to look at it that way. So know who you're getting installed from. Ask the right questions. Yeah, ask the right questions. So these are all the impacts that are happening in the industry for those people that didn't ask the right questions. Right now they're feeling it so not a good thing. All right. So solar companies as well. So you have your installers, like us, and then you have your companies out there We've talked about this on one of our podcasts that are just solar sales companies. Right Now. We are a hybrid. We do both. So we have an internal sales team. We have an install, you know, installation crew. We do all that stuff. We also have partners that do nothing but just sell solar. They're. We call them dealers, whatever you want to call them. They're independent sales companies. They're not bad, but I'm just saying you should do your research into them as well. Who are they working with? Who's the installer they're working with?
Speaker 1:Who are they?
Speaker 2:Where are they from? Are they local? Are they not local? Do they have a local office? If they don't, that would scare me a little bit.
Speaker 1:They come to us, you know, or you know companies like us, because they have a good reputation, they have a good install record, they have, you know, things like that. So when you are sitting at the table with that sales consultant and like, hey, this is my company, this is who we sell for, ask them who's going to be installing? Yes, okay, now ask those same questions about the install company. So if Harman's going to be your install company, if some other company sold you the system, okay, well, what's Harman's revenue streams and things like that. How long has Harman been in business? Because that's ultimately who's going to be installing my system and I need to know about them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's important we partner with some good dealers. We vet the dealers the best that we can Doesn't mean they're perfect, but we do vet them the best that we can. There are certain things we look for, certain questions that we ask, so we try to work with some of the best. Does it always work out? Not always, but it works out most of the time. So you need to be, you need to watch these companies. So right now we're in November, we're post-election and it's door knocking season in Arizona. This is when it's nice and cool. It's going to be cool probably through about April, middle of May, where it's not unbearable. So it's door knocking season. Your doors are going to start getting knocked and I know you've been here for any amount of years and I know you've been here for any amount of years.
Speaker 1:This has been going on for a while. I used to go out on Halloween door knock.
Speaker 2:Did you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're going to answer. Yeah, we're going to. We're going to have to meet with Ben about that.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm just kidding I didn't, but yeah, so they're going to answer trick or treat.
Speaker 1:Why am I solar? That was my pitch to you. It's the only kind of half Good ideas. No, I wouldn't say that.
Speaker 2:But it's door-knocking season, so your door's going to start getting knocked. You need to start. You know when that happens. Just make sure, if you get into a conversation, ask the questions we're telling you to ask, because some companies and not all of them, but there are some companies out there that will come in here and they'll fly in 20 guys and they'll go and they'll sell for as high as they can sell and then they get out.
Speaker 1:They're called blitzes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they do solar blitzes, so beware of solar blitzes. They're very popular in Arizona. Um, they're like a bunch of roaches that they. They go out there and they go all over the neighborhoods and they do everything that they can and then they leave.
Speaker 1:You see a big van pull up and 20 guys hop out. You know you know what's going to happen.
Speaker 2:See if the guys that you're working for are local I think it's important and who they're partnered with. That's also important. So you have two things to really look at Very, very important. But watch out for that, because that's going to be happening right now. Just know who you're buying from and know who's installing. Those are the two. If you haven't learned anything at all on this podcast who are you buying from? Who's doing the installation?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Really, yeah, really look into those two things?
Speaker 2:yeah, because a lot of people just look at the price, like, oh, it's a good price. Ah, yes, it is a good price, but yeah, you might have to pay for it in the end. What do they say? The the pain of the low price. I can't remember what. There's a whole saying about it, but anyway, I'm not that's your ear old, this old saying words of wisdom anyway.
Speaker 2:Um, the other thing I really kind of wanted to focus on is the election does have an impact. It's had an impact on this market. We talked about the economy and what it's done to the industry over the last couple of years. Economy is key in this business. I mean we need interest rates to be down and we need fees to be down in order to create that good spread for you to make good money on your solar investment. That spread was here. You know it's done this. It's starting to do this again.
Speaker 2:So it's starting to be a really good time to start looking into solar again and I think, with the results of the election, you're going to see if the economy changes the way people think it will, the way the experts think it will. These next few years, especially for solar, could be really good. So watch the economy and how it moves it really good, yeah. So watch the economy and how it moves. It definitely impacts what you can make and obviously it impacts what you can spend, because we've seen it the day after the election, our business picked up 200%, like that, because now people are like they feel there are people and on that whatever side feel that. Hey, I think I'm going to have money going forward. I feel good about the results and I want to spend. Or some people probably just said I'm glad the dang election's over. I don't want to hear that noise anymore.
Speaker 1:I just want to get back to life back to life.
Speaker 2:Whatever. It doesn't matter what side you're on. It's just a point of a country right now has got a good vibe and people are starting to spend money again, and we're seeing it. We had Mike Wiley here for the real estate guy not too long ago and he was saying the same thing he houses that started having showings and stuff that weren't showing, yeah, so that's all a great vibe going on, so take advantage of the good vibe.
Speaker 1:I would say there you go, another Harmon Solar tagline.
Speaker 2:You know. And then another thing to think about is the ITC, you know.
Speaker 1:That's big.
Speaker 2:You know what changes will happen with the ITC because of the election. What's the impact on the ITC? That's a question we're hearing a lot too. Itc that's a question we're hearing a lot too.
Speaker 1:The answer is I don't know. Yeah, the truth is we don't know a lot. There's a lot of speculations of where it's going to go and how it's going to, you know, phase out, or if it'll phase out things like that. The truth is no one knows.
Speaker 2:Nobody does and what they look at is when a Republican is in control. Typically they're gas and oil focused and they don't really like renewables a whole lot, but they compromise sometimes Right. When Trump was in office in 2016,. It wasn't bad for solar, it was good for solar. Yeah, you figure, when the Democrats get in office, they're very pro-renewable, so things get better as far as the renewable industry. So, yes, the policy got a little better, the ITC got extended and all that, but the economy did bad, so it actually hurt the business. So it was, you know, double-edged sword in a sense. But we'll watch that and we'll almost kind of see where that goes. I'm pretty optimistic about um again going forward.
Speaker 1:We've been around since the seventies. I think we've seen major changes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's called the solar coaster, right For a reason.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we, we've been there, we've done that. Whatever you know the economy or you know politics throws at us, I think we'll be okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the state of Arizona is hey, things are good right now. They're getting better. Um, we're getting into the heavy season for for people that are going to come in here and sell solar. So you need to arm yourself and be careful. That's why we give you these podcasts. These podcasts are your ammunition right. Take these podcasts, listen to them, understand them. So when someone knocks on your door, if you're interested in solar, you can ask the right questions. You can do the right things to protect yourself and your family. If you want to go solar, invite them in and then have them watch the podcast.
Speaker 1:Come on, come on in, sit down.
Speaker 2:I'm going to show you something you have no idea the amount of people that I've heard from in the last year We've been doing this for over a year now. It's been over a year that we've been doing podcasts and the amount of people that reference this podcast in those sit downs. I've heard about it from. I'm not. I'm not crying, you're crying.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:I've heard it from companies that are out there selling. I've heard it from people that have bought solar. I've heard it from our customers that come to us because of the podcast. I think mission accomplished. We set out to do something. We set out to arm people. Where's the applause button? Yeah, we need applause right now, but we did. We had our mission. We set out to arm people with knowledge so that they can protect themselves, and I think we've done it and we're hearing that feedback now more than ever.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It took about a year, I think, really for it to really kick in. Sounds about right and it's good, so I'm glad we were able to do that.
Speaker 1:so you know yeah, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna take all the credit. Ralph deserves some of it you do, I do at least 20 of the credit ralph. Even hannah deserves some of it.
Speaker 2:Maybe let's not get crazy and we'll keep doing this and we'll keep bringing you new things. Obviously, we've slowed down a little bit because we've hit so many things, yeah, but we really thought it'd be important at least give you a hey. This is what's going on in Arizona right now. This is where we stand, um, and we're looking to a really bright future, and so I think the next four years are going to be phenomenal. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, um, so that's the good news. Now we also have do you anything else you want to hit on that? Nope, and Ben's gone. So we do have some questions from viewers and listeners, so we're going to hit some of those too. Oh, q and A session. We do have a Q and A session. Let's do it. So let's do a Q and A session, and it's funny, a lot of them apply to what we're saying. So here's the first one.
Speaker 1:I did not prep for this, by the way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I just got these yeah what qualifies me, disqualifies me, etc.
Speaker 1:There's a whole lot in that question, yeah. So what incentives? Are there it's still the same as it was last month of the. You know they still have your federal tax credit and state tax credit. That hasn't changed right.
Speaker 2:So and that means nothing, nothing new, but let me say this. So if you're sitting there going, it's november today. Today it's mid-november, right now, um, I can buy this and get it installed and I can use the tax credit by the end of the year. No, good luck, you're not going to get it.
Speaker 1:It's not going to happen.
Speaker 2:The way this industry works with all the companies and all the jurisdictions that we rely on to get things done. If you buy solar right now, you're not going to have it installed and ready to go by the end of the year.
Speaker 1:It's just not going to happen. I've told people that many times. You know, come to our warehouse, we have the crews, we have all the equipment we have. You know, we have things. We can install your stuff tomorrow if we wanted to, but it's not up to us, right, we have there's protocol, there's other jurisdictions, there's other things that we have to do in order to get it installed. There're at their mercy, yep.
Speaker 2:So incentives haven't changed. They're what they were. What qualifies you or disqualifies you? Well, we've talked about that too. It could be your credit. It could be your money situation, your home, your house, your usage, your orientation. Go back and watch the podcast.
Speaker 1:Watch Solar 101. Yeah, that'll qualify you.
Speaker 2:That's what qualifies you and disqualifies you.
Speaker 1:Nothing's changed there. Okay. Next question can my hoa prohibit me from going solar? Yes and no. 99.99% of the time the answer is going to be no, they can't. They can't do anything about it.
Speaker 1:But there are some times where, if it's in like a historical, um, historical district, where they can say you know, you, you can't have it on, you know facing here, or you can't have it at all. But again, those are small outliers in certain communities, you know like what, downtown Phoenix, things like that. But in majority of the time the HOA cannot say you know you can't have your solar system, you know on your roof they can. It's kind of a weird, weird rule. They can say things like like we don't want your panels here, but according to you know the federal government, basically, you know they can't make a decision, decision based off of if it'll impact your production. So as long as it doesn't impact production, they can make a decision on it. Which is weird, because if the HOA says we don't want your modules here, we want it over here, well, that's going to impact production Moving it.
Speaker 2:AZ Senate Bill 1254. Yeah, that's what I was going to reference. Go look it up. It basically protects the stipulated. This is from July 2007. It stipulates that a homeowner association may not prohibit the installation or use of solar energy devices. There you go.
Speaker 2:So they cannot tell you no. Legally Right, they could ask you to move panels, like Ben just said, or set it up differently, as long as it doesn't create a cost for you over and above what you're paying. Right, they can do that If it creates an over and above cost to you no, yep. According to the bill. And again the other thing about that. There, there, I can think of one hoa in the valley that says, nope, you're not installing solar should we put their name on them?
Speaker 2:no, and it becomes. It comes down to do you want to have that fight? Yeah with that hoa, you'll win, but you may lose other things.
Speaker 1:If you know what I mean. Sure, yeah, yeah. So you know. The the second, a blade of grass or a weed comes on your lawn. You're going to get that fine.
Speaker 2:And that HOA is an affluent area. Hoa, so that's the best. I'll say Okay. So you have to decide if it's worth it to you or not. At that point Can we put their phone number at least no, okay, that's number, at least no, okay, that's all I'm gonna say. I'm not saying where can you give us a hint, not gonna say that it's close to a hill, all right, anyway, so that I hope that answers that question okay, is it?
Speaker 2:true that solar panels do not directly power your home, but power the grid instead, and that's where the buyback comes from the utility when you produce more than you use.
Speaker 1:I'm figuring that again. Well, I kind of understand.
Speaker 2:Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 1:So your system is on your roof. It's going to produce power. That power has to go somewhere. It's going to go to your house first, and then anything extra goes to the grid. Yeah Done, that's the simplest way to put it.
Speaker 2:Is it true that solar panels do not directly power your home? No, that's not true.
Speaker 1:It goes to your home.
Speaker 2:They go to your home and then your home tells the, so that your home tells the electricity where to go, right, whether it tells it to go into the house because you need it. Right, going to my battery because my battery needs to be picked up, or I don't need any of this, send it back to the grid, exactly so you make the decision and there's there's times you know during house but you still need extra, so you're pulling from the grid.
Speaker 1:So at that moment in time during the day you could be getting power from both.
Speaker 2:Yeah the solar system and the grid?
Speaker 1:yeah, especially in summer yeah, but now you know my ac is not running, my heater's not running, nothing's on, nothing's running really in my house. I'm not not even there, so you know I'm not pulling a lot of electricity. So solar system in that case would be pushing all that power to the grid, basically because there's nothing running at my house.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's where the buyback does come from. Yeah, so when you don't need the power and you send it back, that's the buyback. So yeah, it's a good question actually. Next, is it illegal to be off grid in Phoenix, arizona or any surrounding areas?
Speaker 1:It's not illegal. Not illegal, it's just, it's a decision, it's the utility's decision.
Speaker 2:if they allow it, Most people will tell you that they don't allow it. I know we used to say that for years, but we've talked to a few of the utilities and they'll say they allow it. But then they give you a list of things that you have to do to qualify the amount of money that you'll spend just to do the things that they want you to do. You might as well just buy another house.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 2:It's pretty crazy. So it's definitely not Definitely not worth going off grid in Arizona. Now, if you're in the outside areas where there's really no grid, well then of course you're off grid, right, so that's what you do.
Speaker 1:That's what I tell people. If you have your house and you've already started off the grid, well then you're off the grid.
Speaker 2:You're off the grid.
Speaker 1:If you have your house and you're in a metropolitan area like the neighborhood behind Ralph right now, you are on the grid. So you've already on established grid right now. Yeah, you can go off. You can go If you've got that kind of money go for it?
Speaker 2:I don't, that would be insane. So anyway, I hope that answers that question, because that's that's actually a common question. We get Um and no, it's not illegal.
Speaker 1:No. Yeah, a lot of people say hey batteries, because I don't want to build from my utility company, I want to be completely off the grid. Well, guess what? You're still going to be connected to that grid with just your solar system and your battery.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I haven't. You're connected. I have an off-grid 2k system in my backyard that powers a mini split and things in my garage. That's it. That's off-grid. That's off-grid, but it doesn't power my house, right? So if it were to power my house, I'd have to play by the rules and connect it and do. There'd be a bunch of stuff. That's not what it is more of a vanity project, yeah, but yeah it's. If you live in the metro area, you can do it. Just you're gonna pay for it, not worth it. Um, I could just do. I can just install dual pane windows and add more insulation in the attic, right? It'd be the same savings but less maintenance.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:That's a good question.
Speaker 1:I say go ahead, Go for it.
Speaker 2:Go for it. There's a misnomer in the industry, so a lot of people are into selling the windows and all that stuff and that's great, whatever you can do to make your house more efficient, depending on the age of your house. Sure, I know that there's people in the industry that have said, oh yeah, if I do that I get a 30%. You know efficiency savings and this, and that I've looked into that. That's not true at all. It's not even close. It's more like 10% maybe, depending on what you do, and I don't know if numbers you looked at.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but, I've seen 10%.
Speaker 1:I haven't looked at the numbers, but I do tell people, do all those energy saving tips. You know Right, double pane, windows, insulation, all that stuff. It's just going to help reduce your bill, yeah, but it's not going to be as dramatic as what solar can do no way.
Speaker 1:Because let's say, just don't know, three thousand dollars a year. Again, we look at it holistically a year. So you're paying three thousand dollars a year for power and then you get solar and you have okay, you have some bills in, you know, january, maybe early february, but then march, april and may you're in the negatives. Um, I don't think you can get a negative bill when you have double pane windows and insulation.
Speaker 1:So that's probably not going to happen because during those months you're pushing power to the grid and they're buying it from you. So that's how you get that negative bill. And then summer months, you know, you might have, you know, a couple hundred dollars here and there and then it goes back down to zero or negatives and around this time, so holistically, you have, you know, probably about a five, six hundred dollar total bill annually. So you went from three thousand dollars to six hundred dollars.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in aps because of solar it's kind of like putting a turbo on your car elaborate, go ahead.
Speaker 2:I mean I get it, but for the people I mean it's kind of like you have a high performing car and you want to make it go a little faster. You put something like a turbo, whatever else you can put on a car to make it a little bit more faster right, give it a little bit more horsepower, or putting one of those chips in your car to make it a little quicker right, you can, you can help. Yeah, solar, solar, solar is going to be the monster, solar is the engine you can help that engine with, by you know, maybe doing windows or doing more insulation.
Speaker 2:It all helps, like what you're saying. So, yeah, go ahead and do all of it. We have a lot of solar partners that sell you solar. They'll also put windows on it, they'll do doors, um, they'll do insulation and all these different things. So, yeah, it all works together. It all works together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, but they're partners solar is the engine, so solar is the engine. Everything else is the things on the engine, around it and stuff that help it go better yeah, so see, that was good analogy. That was a good analogy, you just gotta I wasn't sure where I was going to specify the car yeah, first you know it's like putting a turbo on a.
Speaker 1:Well, it's a 2000.
Speaker 2:No, it's a 2007 yugo? Okay, all right. Um, and we kind of talked about this already, will the solar industry be affected by the election results, pro or con? So we've, we'll see. Yeah, we don't.
Speaker 1:We don't know we think so yeah, again it's, it's not it's not, it's the economy, it's the.
Speaker 2:if the economy gets better, obviously that affects everything.
Speaker 1:We've been through a lot of presidents so far at Harmon. We've seen a lot of financial crises so far at Harmon and here we are. We're still there. We had the housing crisis. We're still here. We had the COVID crash. We're still here. We had, you know we've had everything.
Speaker 2:We're still here, yeah. So yeah, it's a wait and see, and the answer is we'll wait and see. We think it's going to be positive. I think it's going to be positive, but that's my personal opinion, so it's not a harman opinion, it's my opinion ralph's never wrong, so it's very rare.
Speaker 2:You can ask my wife. You know she says I am. I'll tell her she's wrong. Um, next question, please, does the does the solar company receive the tax credits available if the homeowner leases the system? And the homeowner does not? Not the solar company, that would be us. We're the installer. If you get a lease, the lease company takes that credit and they give you a better price for the system as a result of taking that credit. Right, that's the point of a lease.
Speaker 1:Yeah, your price should a result of taking that credit. Right, that's the point of a lease. Yeah, your price should be including of that tax credit.
Speaker 2:Right, they own the system. They take the tax credits and depreciation on that system. They give you better pricing for the power it produces.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a blanket statement. Whoever owns the system gets a tax credit Right. So whether you purchase it or you lease it, whoever owns it gets a tax credit Right. When you purchase it, you own it, so you get the tax credit. When you lease it, you don't own it Right, but somebody else does Right. So whoever owns it gets a tax credit. You buy the power, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's not your system. The one on my roof is a lease. It's not my system, but I buy the power and I buy. If you're somebody that doesn't have a tax liability and doesn't pay the government every year, lease makes a lot of sense. It depends on you and your situation. Talk to your tax accountant. This is why you have that guy to tell you how this works. But yes, that's a good question. So is a home energy assessment worth it with the utility provider? And can they tell me stuff? A solar salesman can't, so I know that some utilities actually do those assessments. Is it worth it?
Speaker 2:I don't know how much they charge?
Speaker 1:I don't either. I would have to know how much they charge to know if it's worth it. So that should probably tell you the answer, because have I ever done?
Speaker 2:one.
Speaker 1:No, no, because I mean, I'm in the industry, so I know what to look for my own home. You know, if I wanted my own energy assessment, I could just do it myself free.
Speaker 2:yeah, I think third-party ones aren't. Third-party ones are like $100. Yeah, but I think the utility will do something like that for free, because they come and they look at light bulbs and they look at all these different things.
Speaker 1:Well then, if it's free, the answer is always yes, it's worth it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean if it's not going to cost you anything, go ahead, do it. Listen, depends. Yeah, I mean a solar salesman should know solar like the back of their hand and understand what it can do for you. They should understand the things around it that contribute to your energy as well. It just depends on the sales guy.
Speaker 1:It depends on the sales guy. It depends on the person you're talking to with the utility, because I've talked to people um, you know solar sales people and I'm just like, wow, you don't know anything about solar and how long you've been doing this, yeah. Then I've talked to other solar salespeople, like, wow, you do know a lot. Yeah, it just depends. I've talked to people at the utility company and like, wow, you don't know anything about solar, do you? But then I've also talked to other people at the utility company and go, yeah, you do know what you're talking about. So it's going to depend.
Speaker 2:I agree. I mean, I don't think it solar, especially if you're talking to harman. Um, I'm all about getting more information, though yeah, I'm an information guy too, so get it if, especially if it's free. Why wouldn't you at least listen to what they have to say and then match that to what a solar guy can tell you and see how it all fits together?
Speaker 2:yeah and if it still doesn't make sense, give us a call. We'll kind of guide you through it. Yeah, it's a good question, though I knew that those things are out there. Um, am I better off not going solar than going solar with a lease? I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't know your situation. You know, is your house under a forest of trees, so no, you shouldn't get solar if you have shading issues.
Speaker 2:Right. If you're in a house or you're in a situation where solar makes sense, then the answer is you're better off going solar Right If you're in, if you're in a situation where you're not paying high bills and your house is terrible for solar, then you probably shouldn't go solar Right.
Speaker 1:I've told people don't get solar because of your situation. And then I've told their next door neighbor you should get solar because of your situation. It's going to depend.
Speaker 2:How many times have we said it's specific to you? Twice, this is not a cookie cutter situation Solar. It is very customized to you and how you live in your home.
Speaker 1:And that doesn't matter. If it's a purchase, a lease, cash doesn't matter. Go watch Solar 101. It's you and your situation, yeah.
Speaker 2:All of that is covered in Solar 101. Go watch it. But still, it's a common question how much does it cost? No, this is not that okay. Will homeowners insurance cover the panels? No, but now this is a tricky question too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you have a warranty for the panels, the the manufacturer covers the panels I think where you're.
Speaker 2:Yeah, homeowners insurance that doesn't have anything to do with that. I mean, I'm thinking in a business sense, it's just totally different and not reply to this conversation. So no, the manufacturer covers your panels. The homeowners warranties that it covers your home. So if there's damage that happens as a result of something with the solar hail, or baseball or something like that. Oh, I mean, if that stuff happens, I mean that's I don't the, the solar manufacturer won't cover that.
Speaker 1:They don't cover that, but again. I don't know what the question is asking specifically if it's what type of damage or malfunctions. So if it's malfunctions or the system is not producing as it should, that's not the homeowner's insurance, no, that's the manufacturer. But if there's damage to the system because of you know, weather or baseball or something like that, then Then we know the manufacturer won't because they don't cover acts of God, right, and that's when you would look at, or whoever is that.
Speaker 2:That's when you'd look at your homeowner's insurance to see if they would help you, right? You know something like that, I guess. Okay, I'm not a homeowner insurance expert. You, really, you really should do in that situation is talk to your homeowner's insurance and see what they do or do, because a lot of those are very different as well. So that's, these are tough. Quite that's a tough question. Um, let's see here. Well, I've heard leasing a a huge. I've heard leasing is a huge. No, is lease to own any better?
Speaker 2:lease to own okay, I don't know of any. They don't know least yelling companies. But and you?
Speaker 1:probably heard, leasing was bad because of a company that came to you that didn't provide a lease option exactly so that they came to you hey, this is what we sell.
Speaker 1:And uh, everything we don't sell is bad, like no, and that's not how it works. Gosh, that is so common. It is common. So in the same thing with leasing companies, they do it too. They go hey, leasing is great and everything we don't sell is bad, like no. Just because you don't sell it doesn't mean it's bad. At Harman we do leases and purchases, so it doesn't really matter because we know the pros and cons to each. So leasing isn't bad. It might be bad for you in your situation, but it might be fantastic for someone else in their situation, like Ralph. Ralph leases his system because it was great for his situation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know it depends on you. You don't go to a Mercedes dealer and start saying, hey, I want to go buy a BMW. They're going to tell you why would you do that? Bmw suck.
Speaker 1:Mercedes are the way to go.
Speaker 2:Right, right, exactly. That's the exact situation we're talking about here. So again, you know the key, some of the key things. For at least, do you have a tax write-off, it makes a lot of sense to buy it and take those credits. Sure, you don't have that liability. Maybe you don't really have much of an income. You're an older person and you're on a fixed income and you want a lease a fixed lease, because that's all you can deal with and you can't take advantage of the credit that can make sense for you. It's just again, like Ben just said, customizable Solar 101 will answer all these questions. I'm very disappointed in you guys that didn't watch Solar 101 and ask these questions, so I need you to go back and watch that and then I need you to report back to me and that's all the questions we have. Oh, okay, that's a lot of questions, not like the 30 something we had that one time.
Speaker 1:It's good questions and we get them a lot, though we get the same questions over and over, but that's okay so I hope that helps.
Speaker 2:So we've been able to provide you kind of an update on what's going on in Arizona, answer some of your questions. I hope you got a benefit to some of the information we shared. Ben, is there anything else that you can think of that you want to share right this moment?
Speaker 1:Not that I can think of.
Speaker 2:I bet you there is, you just don't want to talk about it. But anyway, we're going to come back and we've got, we're trying to put something together, something very, very special, um, for a podcast that we've never done before, that we've talked about and danced around the topic, um. But I think we're just about there and we're and we might get this together for you. So stay tuned, keep a watch out for the next Harmon Solar podcast. I think it's going to be shockingly interesting oh, play on words Shockingly interesting. Hey, thanks for joining us and we'll talk to you again soon. Thank you, bye, bye.
