Harmon Solar Podcast
The solar energy sector in Arizona is currently oversaturated, which has led to a scarcity of transparency. In response, we've created a podcast to provide an honest perspective on going solar in the state. Join us as we explore the intricacies of utilities, equipment, processes, and more. Our primary objective is to educate and empower you to make informed decisions on your solar journey.
Harmon Solar Podcast
Let's Talk Mortgages & Solar
Are you considering buying or selling a home with solar panels and feeling overwhelmed by mortgage implications? Join us as we dive into the often-unexplored relationship between solar energy systems and home mortgages. In this episode, we speak with Ben Rubenstein, a mortgage expert from Price Mortgage, who shares valuable insights on how solar loans and leases can affect your home buying experience.
Welcome to another edition of the HarmanSolar Podcast. I'm Rob Fremano, vp of Sales and Marketing at HarmanSolar, and with me, as always, mr Everything, ben Wohlschlager. Ben, how are you today?
Speaker 1:I'm doing great, are you sure I had a breakfast taco this morning. I had my bottle of water.
Speaker 2:I'm pumped, ben comes here for the food.
Speaker 1:That's the only reason why I'm here.
Speaker 2:Only reason Keep Ben comes here for the food. That's the only reason why I'm here, only reason Keep me on payroll. So kind of exciting to me. This is the last ever Harmon Solar podcast that we are going to shoot in this studio. We are opening up a new studio at the Harmon Solar podcast, or Harmon Solar headquarters, corporate headquarters, and I myself have been building this studio. Ben has helped nothing at all, that's true, and it's actually coming out really well. But our next podcast going forward will all be done at our new Harm and Solar Podcast.
Speaker 1:Studios. In my defense, I've provided creative input, manual labor Wow, creative input yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like that. I agree with that, okay, thanks.
Speaker 3:All right. Thanks for the input You're welcome.
Speaker 2:Today we are going to talk with a mortgage lender. We've never done that and we got a guy, Another guy. We always got a guy. Usually we have, sometimes we get a gal, but today we got a guy right. This guy is Ben Rubenstein. Did I say that wrong? You said it right. No, that's perfect. Ben Rubenstein with Price Mortgage Ben how you doing.
Speaker 3:Hey, I'm doing great, feeling great. Anyone in the mortgage industry maybe is not great you know it's a tough business, right now but we're still having a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:I was going to say why are you feeling great? Yeah, we're eating ramen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just kidding, we're eating ramen, so Price Mortgage. How long have you been there so?
Speaker 3:I've been with Price a little over three years In the mortgage industry about 15 years, Wow, okay. Banking and finance since high school Started all the way back at Wells Fargo and then kind of just worked my way through up the ranks. Okay.
Speaker 2:And here we are. And here we are in one of the worst times ever.
Speaker 1:Okay, we got an expert in the industry, which we needed, right.
Speaker 2:So we've gone through the good and bad over the last 15 years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but why? Which we needed? Right. So we've gone through the good and bad over the last 15 years. Yeah, but why in the world would we have a mortgage?
Speaker 2:expert on a solar podcast Because you asked me to. I have no idea why.
Speaker 1:That doesn't make sense, does it?
Speaker 1:Well tell us why. Well, I mean, people buy and sell homes all the time, right, and sometimes those homes have solar on them. So people want to know well, how does that affect me selling my home? Or if I'm buying a home that has solar? This is a solar loan on the house that I'm buying or selling. What are the ins and outs, what are the questions? And we, as solar experts, we always kind of you know default to ask an expert because we're not, you know, experts in mortgages or real?
Speaker 1:estate, things like that. So ask your mortgage expert or your real estate expert. So that's what we have. But here's the cool caveat.
Speaker 2:There is a caveat to this, right. Not only is Ben a mortgage expert at least you think you are no, you are, You're a mortgage expert, but you're a solar owner as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've had solar for six years now Six years, so I want to talk about that, because we had a conversation with Ben before we started shooting the podcast and an interesting topic came up about his solar, and we talk about all the time people that maybe don't get the best deal in the world Taking advantage of Right Meet Mr X.
Speaker 1:Speak of the devil yeah.
Speaker 2:So tell us about your solar experience. Now, it wasn't with Harman, so let's get that out there. It was with a competitor. Yeah, we won't say the company, no, we won't do that, but talk about your experience. You've had solar since 2018, you?
Speaker 3:said, right, yeah, so I've had it for about six years. I'm just thinking back to when the salesperson came to my home and offered me the program and how it was going to benefit me and initially I saw the financial benefit was the biggest decision. When I see the ability to own a home, potentially have what they say is zero net benefit for your electricity, right, like, I'm not going to pay for electricity. So it was just the challenge of the thought of that was amazing to me because I could, you know, run a household with five kids yeah, you know, 3000 square foot. Energy costs keep rising. So I saw it as an opportunity like, okay, I'm going to save three 400 a month, wow, yeah.
Speaker 2:And that makes sense. It looked good on paper yeah, yeah, I mean so three thousand square foot home, right, so two-story house. They put a 7k system on your house. Now a lot of you might not know what that means. It's a smaller system in the industry. I mean so for somebody that's probably using a lot of. You said you had five kids. You know three thousand square feet. You're probably using a lot of power.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's for someone who's probably their electric bills are probably like averaging, maybe a hundred dollars a month for seven cases. Yeah, it's small somewhere around there, but you weren't averaging a hundred dollars a month, probably before you had solar.
Speaker 3:Right, right, yeah. Yeah, I was paying like two 80 a month on a budget plan back then. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you're talking about 2018. So yeah, and solar was pretty hot back then. I mean, I just come off the 17 drop and then yeah, so I mean that was a good time for solar. So you were paying about 280 a month. What are you paying now?
Speaker 3:So I'm not on the budget plan but it'll teeter. You know this is supposedly the one of the lower months of the year. Close to $200 for the electricity piece, paying almost $200 a month for the loan that I got for my solar. So that's $400 on the low end, I suppose, and then this summer I'm expecting probably close to $700 for June and July Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we've talked a little bit about this before the show started. You know, it doesn't look like you're saving money, obviously. Um, because you're looking, you're paying more. I mean, there is a savings, but we feel that you're probably paying too much for the solar system alone, like what, what you're getting discounted from your, your aps bill. Yeah, there's a savings, but then you account for, well, how much am I paying for the solar system itself? Right, that was too much so, and that's what we kind of got this podcast started for right to help people out to, you know, kind of educate them a little bit like, hey, this is how things actually work and this is how you should, you know, vet these companies these are the kind of stories that piss me off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is why you said, this is why we do this. Ralph is heated. I get heated when I hear stuff like this because it's it's a a gentleman that his family were taking, they were taking advantage of to line someone's pockets, and that's all that happened. Sure, in my opinion, based on what you told me you paid, you probably paid, I'd say, about twelve thousand dollars too much for that system. Yeah, then, if you would have paid that less twelve thousand dollars you actually would it wouldn't be. You'd be okay. Your loan would be a lot less. It's still that system's way too small. You would need a bigger system, but you'd be in a better position than you are now. So just I stuff. Just it irks me, right? It's why we want to do this podcast. It's why we'll never stop doing this, because you want to keep informing people. Be careful of who you're talking to, who you're dealing with. You really got to be able to research it Back in 2018, there wasn't a ton of stuff out there.
Speaker 2:You know about all this. There wasn't this, this uh, what the word? I'm looking for the awareness that we're starting to create that wasn't really there in 2018.
Speaker 3:It was a free for all yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, it was the wild west. It was yeah, uh, it's not that anymore, so and we're trying to help make sure that that stuff just doesn't happen anymore. So I'm sorry that you had that experience, because solar is a great thing for people. It can be and you always say it right Solar is not for everybody, but everyone should take a look. And maybe it wasn't for him, I don't know. I mean looking at his house.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think he could have definitely got a better system and paid less or at least a better deal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it would have been a better deal.
Speaker 2:But anyway, I wanted to start there because it just pissed me off so much. So on that note.
Speaker 1:On that note, let's talk about mortgage.
Speaker 2:We did bring it on for a different reason, right, we want to talk about mortgage and we want to talk about mortgage and solar because it's I'm sure that you're seeing more and more people that have homes that have solar on them, right? I mean, that's just bigger part of this market now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, a lot of the transactions we see have you know whether it's a purchase or refinance, the homes are going to have solar panels, there's a good chance right. And when people are going in to buy homes, we kind of look at the same things that I did when I was making the very same decision Well, what's the electric bill look like on a monthly basis? So I'll often want to educate my clients on what was the payments over the last year so they can kind of see that, in addition to if it's a solar lease, how much is that a month? Or if they're carrying a loan, how much is that a month. So it's about the financial decisions behind the solar right and then the process.
Speaker 2:Do you you just mentioned lease do you look at a system, you look at a situation and go, oh, it's a purchase, that's better, or oh's a lease, that's kind of a negative? I mean, do you have a stigma? Either way, do you say, ah, it's a lease. We have to be more careful because there's a lot more involved here versus a purchase.
Speaker 3:No, it's not so much a stigma. I mean, when you take the payments in account, that does factor into the debt-to-income ratio. On qualifying, while I haven't really experienced a situation where, oh, we can't buy a house because of solar oh, you haven't.
Speaker 1:That's good, yeah, very positive. Can you repeat that and enunciate every word, because we do get that a lot Like oh they have solar.
Speaker 3:I can't buy a house, yeah, so a lot of you know, and I think part of it comes in on the real estate's opinion, because they're you know, they're kind of recommending things to their clients as well. So if they have a negative or positive outlook on solar, that could be a good or bad thing, but at the end of the day it's very easy to do a transaction when solar is involved. So if you're selling a home, they're going to get you know, they call into the solar company, they make a request, fill out some paperwork. It's a couple weeks process. The buyer calls into the solar company, fills out an application sort of situation and then, once they review and approve it, you know the transfer process gets completed and we get all the paperwork we need to close the loan. It's really not a problem at all Easy.
Speaker 2:I like this guy. It's very easy Because you're saying everything we've been saying.
Speaker 1:Right, it's not an issue. It's not an issue. Just do your due diligence and get it done.
Speaker 2:Do you feel solar adds value to a home?
Speaker 3:It does when the system yeah. So I've seen a lot of amazing situations where solar does benefit the customer, where they don't have that electric payment and they just have their lease or their loan. And that's where I was like, wow this. You know, I've seen it firsthand with hundreds of customers where they are getting a great benefit and unfortunately, you know, it didn't work out for me. But I don't want to keep hitting on that. You know it's just I yeah, the only thing I wanted to say to that little piece and I'll switch back. But when something like that happens to someone, I'm glad that you wanted to address it, because when it happens to the person and they're dealing with that financial situation, there's fights between husband and wives and lives can be ruined.
Speaker 2:That's a really good point. That happens, that's a really good point.
Speaker 3:And it's crushing. That's a really good point. That's a really good point and it's crushing. But at the end of the day, I'm glad that you brought me on, because you guys are educating people, you're helping people understand the ins and outs of your industry, where I just look at the finances and the benefit, I get it. Yeah, no-transcript. Now we're closing late.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:And now we're out of you know, then we're falling out of the contract.
Speaker 2:That's just the seller not doing the things that they need to do. Right, right Okay.
Speaker 1:Do you find a lot of uneducated real estate agents or homeowners who are trying to buy or sell a home when it's solar and they're like I just don't know what to do?
Speaker 3:or well, yeah, I mean, yeah, that happens very often, because how many times in your life are you going to buy a home? You know, some people might buy six, seven homes in their lifetime, where the average is maybe two or three homes in a lifetime and with prices up, obviously that number is way down right now. But as things transition over the next few years we're going to see those numbers kind of change as the economy changes and things like that.
Speaker 2:So do you get in a situation where, okay, so someone's financing a system, right, they're paying for it and they're selling the house. Is the solar then rolled into the price of the house? How is that handled? So let's say they still owe, let's say, $15,000 on the system. How does that all get handled within the transaction?
Speaker 1:On a loan, not a lease, yeah.
Speaker 3:So if they own the solar system with a loan, most of the time the seller will just pay off the loan when they close. So what happens is, let's say, you sell your home for 400,000, you owe 300,000 on your first mortgage but then the solar. Let's say, you owe 30,000 on the solar loan. That just gets paid off at the sale. And then the seller gets, the net proceeds.
Speaker 2:It just becomes part of the whole transaction. Yeah Right, yes. So in a sense, I would whole transaction. Yeah Right, yes. So in a sense, I would think the seller has to add value and say okay, my system, I owe $30,000. Instead of asking 280, I might ask 300 or 310. So I can then pay it off as part of the transaction.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and for a buyer? I mean they just got a completely free solar system that they never had to pay for. So how?
Speaker 2:did the appraisers react to that? Are the appraisers putting a value onto the solar system at all or no?
Speaker 3:not really. I'm not seeing added value for solar systems, not so much.
Speaker 1:Um, can you get us in touch with an appraiser to come on the show? Yeah, actually I do have several contacts that we could talk to.
Speaker 3:Um but um, you know, a lot of times when we say, and you know, think you know, if you're putting money into your home like remodeling, upgrading and that sort of thing in general, we just say you're getting half of you know half of the value for what you put into it so it's a fair assumption. Yeah, if you put in 100k, your value might go up 50k kind of a thing.
Speaker 1:Okay, but I mean that that makes total sense yeah, I also think there's a market, a bit um marketability to solar. Not just the financial aspect, because when you take a look at like, oh, this person has solar, but they got it 10 years ago when you know in their grandfathered in on aps's you know rate where it's a higher export rate, so it makes it more like, wow, you know, if I would have got that exact same system today, my savings on my aps bill would wouldn't be as great as this home that already has solar. It's grandfathered in on that plan. Because when, when a new um homeowner takes over, they assume that same grandfather um clause with aps. So that's nice too, that's true.
Speaker 2:As a lender, are there things you're looking for? I mean, we kind of talked a little bit, but be specific. As far as you see a home with solar, what are you looking at when you find, when instantly you see, okay, this home has solar, I need to check this out, I need to look at this. Do you also and with that, do you guys ever order inspections on the system to see if it's working?
Speaker 3:Great question. Short answer is when we order the appraisal, the appraiser is going to go out to the home and they're going to look at the property in and out, right. So as far as the appraisal, if the appraiser doesn't kind of bring up any issues or if they don't see anything that looks wrong, then we never ask for a solar inspection do you think you should?
Speaker 2:what I mean by that is how many, what appraisers experience and look, maybe the appraiser does nothing about solar, so he doesn't really know what he's looking at.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's oh yeah, there's panels on the roof. I totally get your concern with it.
Speaker 3:um, you know, I think one of the bigger things we would worry about is, like, if we see like leaks on the inside from the roof or any kind of that, if they see something like that, then we're definitely getting a roof inspection, because I mean, you could have a paperweight sitting there if it doesn't work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, true. So the reason I'm asking that is because, like, for instance, instance, harman, what we do is we offer that service to realtors, and realtors have been taking advantage of it where they, if they have a home with solar, they have our us go out and do an inspection and we have a full report, just like an appraiser puts a report together. We have the same thing for the solar system. We'll tell you yep, this thing's working great or no? This thing needs this, this, this and this yeah to kind of protect a buyer.
Speaker 1:We actually just had an inspection yesterday, went out to the home, realized your system's not even working. It wasn't one of our customers, but we went out there because they asked us to come out there. We went out there and go, wow, your system's not even working. So we got it up and running. It was a quick, easy fix. It was inexpensive, so that automatically boosts value in your home.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's actually something I would love to hear more about.
Speaker 2:Of course we're salespeople.
Speaker 3:You think about it like well?
Speaker 1:somebody is concerned about oh, is the solar benefiting me when they buy a home? I feel like that should be kind of in the disclosures too, though the homeowner should know if your system is working or not, but how many times is that actually getting disclosed?
Speaker 2:It's probably not.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the only way we can kind of gauge is, you know, from my experiences well, let's look at the APS bill and let's see, you know, what are they paying a month? And if the dollars and cents kind of makes sense, then okay, great. But on a deeper level, you know, after you know reconnecting with Ben several years ago and kind of seeing his expertise in solar, do you hear that, Ralph?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 3:And what he was able to do with just looking at my system and evaluating it. I was pretty impressed with his knowledge and what he could do and see as far as solar systems. Stop talking, Do you hear that, Ralph? And I'm not just trying to build him up too much, but I'm definitely impressed and what I would say is if everybody, when they buy a home, could have some kind of help just understanding that the solar system is working, it is benefiting their system. We need to give you more information on this.
Speaker 2:That would be really good Because honestly, I think it's one of the best products we've ever come up with. We sat around a room one day and we said you know, every time someone buys a house they get an inspection report. Why don't they have an inspection report for the solar system? It makes total sense, right, and so we developed that product a few years ago and started putting it in real estate companies um hands and they started using it. It just makes sense. If I'm going to buy a home that has solar on it, I want to know that it's working or if it needs this, because if it has issues and needs a thousand or two thousand dollars worth of work, I'm going to work that in the price. I'm going to like I'm not paying this. You fix this before I buy it.
Speaker 2:Whatever etc.
Speaker 1:I'm sure 99% of home buyers are not as educated as you and I are. When I was out home shopping and I come across a home that had solar, I was like let me take a look at it. I don't need an inspection because I can do it myself. But homeowners aren't like you and I you know they're going to go?
Speaker 3:Oh, it has solar I assume it's working.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:Right, great product, so we'd give a thing. We'll get you more information on that, but I think that's something that every anyone that's buying a problem for somebody that wants to buy a house that has solar on it. If it's an owned system or a finance system, you lease system. I think you said that it's an easy transfer process.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Right. So that's pretty much in line with everything we said Just communication.
Speaker 1:That's all it is.
Speaker 2:It's all about communication. I mean, I think the biggest challenge that we have in the industry is real estate agents that aren't educated, so they just don't. If they don't understand it, they're not going to like it Right, so that's what they do. I think more and more are starting to get educated, but there is still that really big piece that just don't get it and don't want to deal with it. Sure, you know. So they're a challenge for us, and so we try to talk to as many of those as we can.
Speaker 3:Right. I mean there's a couple other angles to look at it. You know, if someone's trying to close a transaction in two weeks, you know, maybe that's going to push their timeline out a week. It's extra paperwork, extra conversation. So do I even want to deal with this or take the time to go through that? So those are like some of the obstacles. But I mean it's really a five minute conversation and a 15 minute phone call.
Speaker 2:So you just don't. I was going to ask you do you see any challenges with somebody buying a house that has solar on it? It sounds like you're saying not really.
Speaker 3:There's not really a true challenge behind it. It's more so just like avoiding the situation. Like if the real estate agent says, oh, you don't want a home with solar, so the Like if the real estate agent says, oh, you don't want a home with solar.
Speaker 2:So the challenge is the real estate agent that's uneducated, that doesn't want to sell it. That's the challenge.
Speaker 3:Probably the more likely situation.
Speaker 2:But for the homeowner themselves it's not a challenge. If they want to buy a home with solar, it's not a big deal.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't see why you wouldn't, as long as you're getting a financial benefit. And then if the seller is going to just pay off the system, if it's an own system and they pay it off, I mean that's why not? Yeah, there's literally no loss to the buyer. No, there's nothing but a gain. Yeah, I agree with you 100%.
Speaker 2:And just to clarify you don't see when you see a house come in or a home come in, that's being bought or whatever. If it has a lease system, that's not a negative for you.
Speaker 3:No, not at all, you don't care if it's leased or financed. Yeah, if it's leased or financed, we don't care at all. Yeah, it's just a matter of well. We need a copy of the lease agreement. How much is it a month? Again, just factoring in the payments. Factoring in the payments, so when somebody, um you know, sells a home that has no solar, we don't factor in the electricity bill into debt to income ratios right, so I mean it's a couple hundred a month if that on some of these systems okay.
Speaker 2:So that's makes sense, because right now the biggest thing out there, people's like oh, if it has a lease, it's just a big negative to sell and to buy. And you're saying that's just not true.
Speaker 3:Yeah, let's look at the lease agreement again. Yeah, what's those payments? What's the electric payments? Right, but yeah, no, I mean, even if it's a let's, you know, everybody's refinancing their loan. Very easy to get the solar company just to fill out a, you're transferring a lien, essentially.
Speaker 2:So very, very easy to do. See, that was my next question. How does it impact refinancing? So, you're going right there which is beautiful.
Speaker 3:He follows the outline. He's following my outline.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 3:So refinancing not an issue either. It's very easy, it's super easy.
Speaker 2:Wow, all an issue either.
Speaker 1:it's just, it's very easy like it's super easy, wow, all right, this is all this all good stuff no, it's good stuff.
Speaker 1:Um, I actually had an encounter with someone, um, recently. Um, they were looking to buy a house and you know, they were looking at all these different homes and they're like, oh, this one. You know a couple homes I looked at they had solar and I just I just didn't want to deal with that. I'm like, well it's, it's nothing really to deal with, like it's a five minute phone call, like if this is your dream home and it's everything I've ever wanted and everything. Oh, but it has solar on the roof, never mind like, no like let's pump the brakes a little bit, like we can solve these issues.
Speaker 1:It's like ben was just saying it's easy, we can, we can take care of it. Yeah, people, yeah people don't want to listen, though there's a type of loan impact.
Speaker 2:So if it's an fha, for instance I know fha has a lot of rules or if it's a va loan, are there any any things that impact, like if solar's on there is?
Speaker 3:so if you go from like conventional, now we're looking at fha, va or even usda, kind of the three guidelines in there is like is it safe, is it sanitary, is it secure? So, if everything is working correctly and it meets all the city, county, um, you know rules or so you know, so to speak, like it's up to code, yeah, it's up to code, then we're good, like there's zero concern there.
Speaker 2:Um, so just a lot of myths, a lot of yeah a lot of misinformation misinformation, Exactly so okay, so there's no special requirement by the government and you're just a couple of that, you saying it's just again, this is not a big deal, right? Yeah, sounds like an easy transition. Are there mortgage programs out there that are maybe more green focused or, you know, they look at renewable. I mean, is there any kind of programs that you deal with out there, or is it just based on basic stuff?
Speaker 3:Well, a lot of people don't know about um, the, the green programs that are already built into FHA, va. So you can get, you know, roughly $6,000 towards energy efficiency improvements. When you do a refinance or a purchase. You can get extra loans for those. You have to have a contractor come in and do the bids and then they can literally build it right into the transaction put the money in escrow.
Speaker 1:So this is kind of touch more on that. So this is let's say, someone does not have solar and they want to refinance. They can use that. What do you say? Six grand towards like getting solar or is that how it works? Yeah, yeah, that's true I did not know that.
Speaker 2:I didn't know, that's true you go, so they can refinance through one of these programs and get six thousand dollars right put toward like a cash out refinance so you could do energy efficient windows, hot water heaters, solar, other different improvements, all renewable stuff, all green stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, if you are looking to get solar and you are looking to refinance your home. I'm sure we'll flash his information on the screen or something. Give him a call, you can get some extra cash for that. Towards that solar purchase Interesting yeah. I did not know that I learned something new every day.
Speaker 2:It's usually not with Ralph, but I learned something new every day.
Speaker 3:Wow, that's really that's yeah, there's a lot of crazy stuff out there. I mean, I could give you another one, like, let's say you want to buy a house. Let's let's say we're going to do an FHA loan and you see the home and it's not quite the dream home that you want it to be. We can do basically a renovation loan where you can get $30,000, $60,000 towards renovations. We got to look at how much is the loan going to be and then, once we do the renovations, what would be the appraised value after the fact? And then we can build in all of those renovations into a purchase.
Speaker 2:But then would you be assigning value to solar. In that sense Potentially Interesting? Yeah, because you'd have to like, if you're gonna say you're assigning a value to the renovation got a talk to an appraiser, yeah we do need to get an appraiser in here.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I know that I talked to appraisers probably 10, maybe 8, 10 years ago and they weren't assigning a whole lot of value to solar, but they were really starting to take a look at it Because they were trying to understand.
Speaker 2:It was the same scenario where real estate agents were that they just didn't understand it right so they wouldn't touch a value on it, but they were trying to educate themselves through the appraisal board and more and more so they could actually start assigning some value. And I've heard nationally they have started assigning value to solar in some situations. So I would really like to get one in here just to have that more detailed conversation. So another thing that people could go to you for we kind of talked about it a little bit, but there are people that get solar that get bad loans. I mean solar loans. So just to give you an example, solar loans have really high fees on them, way more than, I'm sure, anything you guys even get close to you I'm talking. There's solar loans out there that have up to almost 40 fees on them.
Speaker 1:They disclaimer they could have high fees. They don't not all of them. You could have some with no fee. They're all different kinds.
Speaker 2:There's different kinds. You can go anywhere from zero to about 38%.
Speaker 1:Depending on the solar loan 38% fee. Think about that.
Speaker 2:There are people and the common thing there is the lower your interest rate, the higher your fees, especially in today's world. What's the interest rate on a mortgage right now?
Speaker 3:Oh you Six, six and a half seven. That's horrible.
Speaker 1:That's horrible. That's what we're in Compared to five years ago, that's bad.
Speaker 2:I know that it was higher even than that and it's actually starting to come down it does look like things are on a downtrend.
Speaker 3:Just a couple weeks ago, I would say, conventional loans were at a seven and a half percent rate. I would say conventional loans were at like a seven and a half percent rate, and so finally we're starting to see a downtrend. That's good. So we're getting really excited about that and hopefully we see some continuation through the summer. What do you think will be by the end of the year. A lot of people ask me that question like every day. If you knew.
Speaker 3:I know you don't know, but just a gut, if I was a mortgage wizard, which you are, which I am.
Speaker 1:That's his actual trademark name.
Speaker 2:Right, you're a mortgage wizard so you have to tell us.
Speaker 3:And I had to guess. I'm going to say by the end of the year we'll be at 1%. No, no, I'm just kidding. Five and a half.
Speaker 1:Five and a half, that's not horrible.
Speaker 3:And then people start getting excited and hopefully we see some movement, because it's just like we're kind of seeing this holding pattern right now, even today still which makes sense.
Speaker 3:I mean, it's kind of understandable. A lot of first-time buyers are priced out of the market completely between the high-priced homes as well as the higher rates. So when we look at it from a financial perspective, my first question is always you know, how much are you paying in rent, right? Because if I know you're paying two thousand a month in rent. Four hundred thousand dollar purchase price on a home right now is going to be three grand a month. You know, psychologically are you comfortable to pay an extra thousand dollars a month on just your home payment?
Speaker 2:So not including all the other stuff in owning a home.
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah, you know home payment, so not including all the other stuff in owning a home, yeah, yeah, and you know for a lot of folks out there listening you know you might want to be at. You know when you look at your overall budget, your total take home, you want to be at about 25%. You know your mortgage and all your utilities and just your home shouldn't be more than 25% of your net take home, your home alone 25% Home electricity.
Speaker 2:All of that combined.
Speaker 3:Yeah, your utilities.
Speaker 2:Should be about 25% of your take home.
Speaker 3:Correct On your budget. That's not like a required number, because when we do a mortgage and we look at your mortgage and all of your debt in general, 50% of your gross can be debt and mortgage. So your 50% DTI is what you're looking at. That's kind of the magic number. You know FHA, VA. We can go a little bit above that in some cases, depending on credit and how much you have saved and things like that.
Speaker 2:But yeah, what do you consider when you look at somebody's coming in with their credit score? What's a good credit score for you? What is something you're hoping to see?
Speaker 3:Um, you know, if it's above 600, that's like the number. Where it's like okay, we got an opportunity to help someone.
Speaker 1:Yes, we're good.
Speaker 2:But I'm expecting a higher number than that.
Speaker 3:Now, if you're putting 10% down, um, I go down to like five, 50 on an FHA loan.
Speaker 3:Wow, most banks cannot do that. As brokers, we shop over 100 lenders in the country, so we're shopping for rates for you. Our fees are way less as a broker. We don't charge an origination fee. We don't have a lot of the added built-in fees. Retail lenders the way they operate, they've got margins kind of built into the rates to get more money for the lender ultimately. But three years ago I switched to price mortgage for that exact reason was how can we get the rates as low as possible to where we're more competitive than anyone else? And that's pretty much how I've survived staying in the industry for the last three years. Pretty much how I've survived staying in the industry for the last three years. If I didn't make that move, I'd probably be out with the other 75% of people that have new jobs now Selling solar Okay.
Speaker 2:So that's this is good. I want to talk more about this, to kind of pump what you guys do. So if someone walks in with a 550, it doesn't mean they're done, they're not done. You could actually help them.
Speaker 3:They're not done and I still love talking with those folks because I mean, if they are done today, next year we're going to help them get to where they need to be Somebody walks in with a 750.
Speaker 3:That's gold right, I mean, yeah, I mean anything above 700, we can do a lot for, like there's, you know all the options are there. So then it's, you know, when we look at those loans what's the most financially savvy option for you. Right, if, depending on how much money you're putting down, where's the rate, where's the payment? We got to look at those things and then you know, most of the folks that are closing on a transaction this year will, you know, highly likely be refinancing in the next one, two, three years tops. Sure, that makes a lot of sense. So I'll often tell them we don't want to spend several thousand dollars buying down a lower rate right now because if you refinance 12 months later, you basically lost the benefit of paying extra money at closing to get that lower interest rate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that makes sense, right? I think you're 100% right. I think the people that have been buying homes in the last probably 12 months and the ones that will buy them this year will be financed in the next two years.
Speaker 3:Sure Sure.
Speaker 2:That just makes sense. There's guys like me that I refinanced I don't know last time Trump was in office and my I got a 3% rate Right. So those are the guys like we're not. We're not going to move at all, we're going to either, unless we sell and move out of state. I think that segment of people are just, they're stuck and that kind of hurt you guys a little bit too, because those people don't want to do anything, because the minute they touch it now their rates go higher. Agreed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's kind of hurt the industry a little bit too, for the last few years Rates just got too low.
Speaker 1:I mean people took advantage of it for the right reason. Sure, I did. Yeah, I know how do you not right, Right, right?
Speaker 2:But I think what you're saying at five and a half, if you can get to down to five, five and a half percent by the end of this year, I think that's a win, that's a huge win. It opens your market back up, yeah so.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 3:I to. I see that direction coming. Yeah, with the way the economy's changing, the change in, you know, government policies and all those things coming through. Um, you know the S? The stock market is trending down a little bit. Right now we look like we're in correction territory where, you know, we're putting everything in a box and shaking it all around, mixing it up, confusing everybody. Investors are freaking out, but maybe it's a very healthy change that we need.
Speaker 2:No, I agree. I think things. I mean the solar industry took a huge hit in the last four years as well. I mean with the economy and the way it went and the interest rate. We were selling 0.49% loans four years ago.
Speaker 1:That was crazy 0.49%.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the only thing I'll comment on is when I did my solar back in 2018, I got 2.99%. Right so that was the one positive where like oh okay.
Speaker 2:No, that's a good rate. I mean, I guarantee you there's a fee that was built into that. That probably was 25%.
Speaker 3:Yeah, back then.
Speaker 2:But we were down to 0.49 just four years ago and it was, you know, easy to sell 0.49 loans, not bad. Then it went from 0.49 up to 999, 899 and the industry just died. Yeah, like the 10 top installers, uh, in solar, from 20,022, are all out of business in the country. They all went out of business in the country. They all went out of business, the top 10. Wow, because the economy and what it did, right. But now we're starting to see the correction and we're actually starting to see down to 399 again, which is that's where most I think that's the lowest that's out there right now right, 399. So we anticipate they're going to go even lower. I heard that they corrected a rate yesterday. They dropped the rates.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is that true? I'll have to look at it. I know it was this week, is it this week?
Speaker 3:Yeah, just banking and finance in general. All the rates should kind of be coming down across the board.
Speaker 2:What I like about what you guys do is, like you just said, is you go out there and search for the best opportunity for people, versus just offering what you have.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you'd be surprised. So, like every week, there's a new flavor of the week. I call it Because this lender wants to drop their rate or their margin down to the point where they're number one on the sheet. But next week there's going to be a completely different five companies that are the top five.
Speaker 1:Because they don't want to be number one.
Speaker 3:If I work directly as a retail lender with one company, I'm subject to whatever their products and pricing management team. They set their rate and their margin any given week, any given day, so I'm having to play with their numbers. But as a broker, I get to play with everybody's numbers and find out what's best for my customer.
Speaker 2:Well, it reminds me of our business, everybody's numbers and find out what's best for my customer. So well, it reminds me of our business. I mean, you're, you're, you're lined up with us really well, because we're we talk about this all the time is that we don't just offer you this right?
Speaker 1:We don't have just one finance company or one modules to offer one inverter Like. We have options.
Speaker 2:We have options, because those companies that only have this talk about that. This is the best thing for you and this is what you need versus what you really need, right, because that's all they sell. So you're kind of in that same boat, which I really think is really important that people can go to you. The mortgage wizard.
Speaker 3:That's your name, right yeah?
Speaker 2:The mortgage wizard and he will work for you and he will look at all the different options and what makes best sense for you. That's what I want when I have somebody working for me. Yeah, so I mean, that makes a lot of sense. So if somebody wants to get ahold of you, how do they find you? You?
Speaker 3:know it's pretty easy, my contact number. Most people call me. Text me. If you find me on social media you can message me. But yeah, I mean I can give you my contact.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, say it, it's pretty easy 602-885-3863.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:Is there an email?
Speaker 3:address yeah, it's brubenstein at pricemortgagecom.
Speaker 2:Are you on the internebs interwebs? Oh yeah, oh yeah, I've got a website.
Speaker 3:I've got Facebook, instagram and all that fun stuff. How can people find you on the interwebs.
Speaker 2:Is there any particular way you want them to go? I mean, like for me, they just look at Solar God and they find no, I'm kidding, no, but I mean, how do they find you? Is there a mortgage wizard is on the internet or yeah, I haven't done that, unfortunately, not yet.
Speaker 3:You need to do that, you need to put a little wizard. If you search Ben Rubenstein, my name's coming up for sure. There's only one of those in the world If you search Ben Rubenstein, there's so many Ben Rubensteins. It's unbelievable. But but there's only one mortgage wizard.
Speaker 2:There's only one mortgage wizard. You need to do the whole wizard outfit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I thought about that for Halloween, you know crystal ball and all that, Can we?
Speaker 1:reshoot this podcast with you dressed up as a wizard. That would be phenomenal. I mean, I could do that, yeah.
Speaker 2:We could have him come in and dress that way and I could just do camera effects and make it seem like boom. That'd be really fun fine Smoke. Any other things.
Speaker 1:No, thank you for coming. I'm really glad I came in and met both of you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was cool. We learned a lot. Really cool experience. Thank you for inviting me Absolutely.
Speaker 2:We need to get a hold of an appraiser next. We weren't thinking about that, but I think, after talking to Ben, that just makes a lot of sense. We're going to get down dirty on this stuff because he just cleared up a lot of myths that are out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we talked with a real estate agent, we talked with a mortgage expert. Now we need an appraisal.
Speaker 2:Um, probably I want to talk with um homeowners insurance agents yeah, absolutely you know how that affects everything, so and ben needs to get your information on those uh system reports that we do, because I think that's really beneficial to your customers. If they're buying solar, you got to protect them yeah, yeah, we're all about the consumer and I think that's why we developed that and that's I think it'd be a good product for you. Yeah, could be, so all right, so that that's uh, our, uh, our talk about mortgage, and I learned a lot.
Speaker 2:Ben learned a lot, yeah, and ben never says that I know so see what happens to get two bens together uh, mr everything plus some mortgage stuff hey. So thanks for watching. We'll be coming at you real soon here. We've got so much cool stuff lined up. We have so many guests lined up and we're doing something special in April as well. We'll get to that on the next one, but that's going to be really cool. But we'll be out here soon. Again, thanks for watching and we'll talk to you then. Thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
